We have talk enough, but no conversation. Samuel Johnson 

I’m working on having better conversations. I want to focus on how I listen, what I say and how I behave when I’m talking with colleagues. We assume that the art of conversation is a skill that we are all born with, as natural as talking. But when I look around me, glance at the news, flick through social media, it seems like we need good conversation more than ever. I want my conversations to bring different voices together, get to the heart of things quickly and ultimately to bring a little more hope. 

Conversations are the most natural way that we express and live out our leadership role. It’s how we introduce ideas, learn what people really think, engage with difficult people, sense when things are going well, and when it’s time for change.

Three important professional conversations have been happening in education over the last twelve months. The first is SEND and Inclusion (led by Tom Rees). The second is curriculum reform (led by Becky Francis). And the third, of course, was inspection (led by Martyn Oliver), including the optimistically titled ‘Big Listen.’ I suspect that, judged against what genuine dialogue really looks like, some of these conversations will prove more successful than others.

We run lots of staff surveys to discover what people think, but sometimes I wonder whether this mechanism is in fact just a corporate way to outsource our need to genuinely engage with people. To save us from having a few honest conversations.

This post is about some of the ways we might have better conversations.

1/ Know what kind of conversations you’re really having?

Here’s a list of a few of my conversations over the last two weeks:
– I offered some career advice to a colleague asking for direction
– I told the truth to somebody who had asked for feedback, and we talked about this
– We interviewed the newest member of our team, which felt more conversation than interview
– We listened to a small group of ECTs about how we might support workload better
– We listened to a parent who took issue with their child’s SEND provision

Looking back at our diary usually tells us a record of the conversations we really had, including the less successful ones. In some of the above, I talked first and too much, in others I was too rushed – I didn’t commit enough time to really engage and listen deeply. The ones I’m happiest with, was where I talked least and made notes of what the other person said.

I want more conversations, and fewer meetings. Meetings are mostly about managing, ticking things off, running through items on a pre-set list. Conversations have the potential to explore a topic, consider different viewpoints, wonder how we might do this better, ask more questions.

2/ What’s wrong with our conversations?

Johann Hari describes eavesdropping into a conversation while on his ‘attention’ sabbatical in his book Stolen Focus:

There was something odd about their conversation which I couldn’t place at first. Then I realised that they weren’t, in fact, having a conversation at all. What would happen is that the first man would talk about himself for ten minutes or so. Then the second man would talk about himself for ten minutes. And they alternated in this way, interrupting each other, for two hours. At no point did either of them ask the other a question.

We seem to live in a culture where people are broadcasting but not receiving.

Three conversation conundrums:
– We often pretend we are having conversations when that’s not what’s really happening.
– We have most of our conversations with people who are just like us.
– We are so busy that we don’t make the time for real conversation.

Because of these, the richness of what conversations might offer, the way in which they help us connect, and the opportunities for transformation seem to be missing from our lives.

In Do Pause, Robert Poynton reminds us that in the world of online meetings, no sooner do we close one screen, but we open up the next one. We miss out on the hellos and goodbyes around a cup of tea, the walk from one office to another with a colleague we see less often. Our conversations have been relegated to meetings, and our fortnightly F2Fs deemed too inefficient and have become brief online catch ups. We are becoming too efficient – shaving off the human elements of the week, the times when conversations happen. Life is often best found in the gaps.

3/ What is good conversation?
A good conversation is not a group of people making a series of statements at each other. A good conversation is an act of joint exploration… which sparks you to have thoughts you’ve never had before.
David Brooks, How to know a person.

Conversation is where we develop the ability to understand people. A conversation might have three parts:
– paying attention (you will listen more than you will speak),
– curiosity (questions which show you are truly interested in what they are saying), and
– empathy (you are deeply invested in understanding the other viewpoint).

A poor conversation is one that is one-way – where I am thinking about what I can get out of it
A good conversation is one where I’m thinking about what will help the other person (I’m genuinely interested in what they think)
A great conversation is one, where, as a result of our authentic interaction, we are both changed.

In my experience, the most effective leaders lead conversations by:
– Being calm & in listening mode
– Putting others first – Following up with ideas, or reading (‘I saw this & thought of you’) 
– Building a psychologically safe space (no surprises) 

My best conversations are when they are intentional, prepared for beforehand, yet held lightly, so there is room for some unpredictability. They’re full of energy, yet relaxed. And we are on equal terms. My worst conversations occur when I’m tired, unprepared, and have few resources to give.

4/ Listening – the promise that changes everything
Most of us don’t listen with the intent to understand. We listen with the intent to reply. Stephen Covey

One of the worst social habits is conversational narcissism. This is where someone tries to equate your experience with theirs, and then makes it about them. This is like a tug-of-war they’re constantly trying to win. A conversational narcissist is the person who keeps taking the ball in a game of catch, and never passes it back (Pat Wagner, conversational expert). We can choose either a shift response or a support response. Either I can shift the attention to myself, or I can support what it is you’re talking about.

When we really listen, we behave as if we actually want the other person to be right, and us wrong. We lean in towards them, smile, use open body language and say things like:
I think I may have got this wrong …
I think I misunderstood what you said …
I need to understand this better.

Nancy Kline’s work on creating a thinking environment is premised on a simple promise, I won’t interrupt you. Genuine listening is the prelude to deep understanding. Sometimes the best thing you can do for a person is just listen to them.

Sometimes, as a headteacher, I’d collect my lunch then look for the awkward child on their own, and go sit with them. Partly because it felt like the right thing to do, but also because I wanted to listen to their day, to help me get a child’s-eye-view of what was really going on in our school.

5/ Schedule fewer meetings, check-in, and check-out
I’ve made the mistake of over-filling my calendar, running through lots of meetings rapidly to create the illusion of progress. But afterwards I recognised that I felt empty, like we interacted at only a functional level. One solution for me was to schedule fewer, longer meetings to create deeper discussion. By doing this, we spend more time checking in on each other, actually looking at the other person, instead of a cursory glance before switching back to the laptop. We also spend more time at the end of the conversation. I am more likely to ask: Does this sound like a realistic plan? Is there anything else that you need support with? Questions which are a form of checking out.

6/ Don’t tell people how bad my week’s been It’s so easy for our conversations to unravel negatively. When I offload the woes of the week, this sets it on a downward track, and dilutes potential hope in that conversation. It also gives the other person permission to reflect back the worst of their week too, so before long we’ve talked up a disaster scenario, when the truth is the week wasn’t really as bad as that, and that’s not what I meant to happen in this conversation. I wish I had a tool kit for knowing how to shift this. To have more fruitful conversations, I need some sort of prompt to help me, especially when I’m tired. So, in answer to the question, How was your week? I’m trying to respond with:

– ‘A’ was great (point to the achievements of others)
– I found ‘B’ hard (be real)
– Experience ‘C’ helped me learn (every day’s a school day)

This structure helps me reframe conversations so that they feel more hopeful and don’t go awry. It’s not so much leading the conversation, it is more leading the tone of the conversation.

7/ Find someone you disagree with
In his book Let’s Talk – How to Have Better Conversations, Nihal Arthanayake describes how we now live in a society with people are at opposite ends, throwing rocks at one another. We live in silos we have built for each other, based on FB pages, newspaper editorials and tweets where we form impressions of people rather than talking to them as individuals.

Having a conversation with someone that I know I don’t agree with, always teaches me something. This could happen after a meeting, over coffee, when the guardrails are down. It’s a chance to patch up any former friction. If you plan in your diary an extra 15 minutes to be available for this, it means you might just have time for someone which otherwise wouldn’t have happened. Think about your opening gambit:

– I was really interested in when you said ‘X’…
– I don’t really understand ‘Y’ as well as you, would you mind explaining?
– I’d like to know more about ‘Z’, could you help me with that?

They’ll experience a double shock. Firstly, because you hurdled the invisible barrier between you both. Secondly, because you are not point-scoring, but genuinely trying to understand things from their side. If you continue to do this through your day, your week, your month, then two things happen. You become known for not being one of the crowd, and those people who find it harder to connect or make work friends, will find you more approachable.

Rebecca Solnit says that online is notorious for promoting strong opinions with low information, and attacking those who are different. Society’s track record of listening to those who are different is not good. As educationalists we could lead this quiet rebellion.

Listening then, at its simplest, is deciding who you are prepared to listen to. It’s a walking towards, an office-politics version of love your enemies. Which really means, go find someone you find most difficult, and let them know that you actually care about what they are saying.

8/ Keep structured conversations positive
Most professional conversations are highly structured. The structure can provide you with a mechanism to keep the conversation positive and constructive. As a line manager, take the time to have wider conversations with colleagues, showing interest in what’s going on in their lives. When you run meetings, do your best to make yours the least important voice in the room. When you have difficult conversations, have them early enough for your colleague to have a genuine chance to improve.

9/ Create the conditions for unexpected conversations
In the best conversations, you don’t even remember what you talked about, only how it felt. John Green

As part of our CPD we intentionally arrange lots of face-to-face get-togethers. We share good practice, then have time to think how this could apply in our own context. But what these get-togethers also enable us to do is to eat and drink and connect further than the transactional metric of email and online meetings. Some of the learning comes from the teaching from the front, but more I think comes from the unforced conversations. People share honestly, generate ideas and hatch plans which could not otherwise have taken place, but for being physically together. This is the sweet spot between learning and belonging.

10/ Openness to new ideas and people
Leaders I enjoy working with are open to new ideas, different perspectives, and ask lots of questions. They show a perspective of there’s more out there, and expose their team to different voices, not just their own. Great conversations are usually wrapped up in curiosity, openness to people, a willingness to learn and a desire to grow. There are always new people to meet on the train, who may add a new dimension to our life.

My experience is that when you offer your time generously, are inclusive with who you talk with and listen deeply, then something interesting happens. People want to work with you, ideas emerge from all sorts of places, you find yourself working with people with fresh perspectives, on unexpected projects. And this happens more when you have better conversations.